Close
Back HOME Menu
Close

the truth about Xavier clinicals??

Thread: the truth about Xavier clinicals??

Tags: None
  1. IMG Reality said:

    Exclamation the truth about Xavier clinicals??

    So, it's good to see there is finally a place to talk about one of the biggest problems with the school... clinicals or should i say observerships.

    On the new school website it states "All US Clinical Rotations are ACGME approved and follow Greenbook standards". Everyone should know by now that in order for a rotation to be ACGME approved it has to be under a residency program at a hospital. Again, I ask where is the proof of these hospital affiliations? All the website states is some candy coated statement in hopes of nobody actually taking the time to look further into the matter.

    GMC is the company the school uses for rotations. Other carib schools have used this company in the past, but have withdrawn their contracts because of how they setup rotations. The GMC website states in the FAQ section, "Your rotations will take place primarily in outpatient settings such as community clinics and urgent cares. However, depending on the location of the clinical rotation (i.e. Atlanta, Georgia), your attending physician and the hospital policies with regards to IMG, you may find access to hospital wards and be able to follow your patient while admitted, under the direct supervision of your attending physician." How can these rotations be ACGME approved if they are in primarily outpatient settings???

    I've heard some people say that all of this doesn't matter because at the end of the day it's all about the paperwork. A student does a "rotation" with doctor (x) and then receives a recommendation. Doctor (x) happens to be affiliated with hospital (y) nearby that has a residency program for that area of medicine. So, the paperwork says that the student did the rotation at hospital (y) because doctor (x) has the affiliation, but it was actually done in the private practice office of doctor (x). What kind of physicians are these types of training scenarios actually producing?? Sure it may look good on paper, but was anything useful actually learned during this "rotation" and if so was it comparable to a US med school rotation?

    I'm curious as to what a student would do if a state medical board actually found out that the "rotations" were done in this manner. Are there any legal ramifications behind this type of false representation of real clinical rotations? I know GMC has been around for at least 5 years so I was wondering if any students from other schools actually got full state licenses using this company and doing these types of "rotations"?

    I'm not trying to go on some big witch hunt towards the school just because they make it so easy to do so. It's just that we as students are investing an enormous financial commitment into this process and I don't want to be one of those students that A) can't get a license because the rotations aren't valid and B) end up jeopardizing a patient because of lack of adequate training.

    Any thoughts or input on this matter would be helpful, not only from Xavier students but any school.
    Last edited by IMG Reality; 08-07-2008 at 05:12 PM. Reason: spell check let me down
    Chris
    life experience - define your locus of control, don't let it define you.

    one happy island [X]
    step 1 [X] Hidden Content
     
  2. playahatergameplaya said:

    Exclamation again chris

    all these wonderful thoughts about xusom but as part of the SGA, what are you all doing about it? nothing besides flapping your gums. this proves my point, the SGA is absolutely useless. most students get involved in SGA to fill up their resume so they can tell residency programs that "I" was involved in SGA. xusom SGA does nothing for you, doesn't work for you and wastes money on Subway sandwiches.
    I still remember in april the current SGA group made wonderful campaign promises and nothing has gotten done.
     
  3. IMG Reality said:

    completely off topic change or remove post

    In case you missed the clearly spelled out title of this section, this is to discuss clinicals only. My post has nothing to do with SGA, i'm not even in SGA. So, if you have a comment about rotations then give your input, if not remove your post. We can discuss SGA in another forum if you want. The object here is to get some real info about the current status of clinical rotations at this school.
    Last edited by IMG Reality; 08-01-2008 at 06:51 AM.
    Chris
    life experience - define your locus of control, don't let it define you.

    one happy island [X]
    step 1 [X] Hidden Content
     
  4. playahatergameplaya said:

    this post is clearly related clinicals

    The SGA promised to look into all the clinical rotations, comprise a list and give it out to the students. they were supposed to get things organized for us. what has been done? NOTHING...so in relation to your post on clinicals.
    The SGA has done nothing again besides flapping their gums.
    "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."Hidden Content
     
  5. IMG Reality said:
    I was talking about your previous post, it was not related to the topic. It's good and all to hold SGA accountable for what they say, but they aren't the ones who put the false information about clinicals on the website. Ultimately, you should be holding the school accoutable for what they say or write. SGA is just a median information line between the students and the school. If you want to accuse anyone of not owning up to what they say, it should be the school.
    Chris
    life experience - define your locus of control, don't let it define you.

    one happy island [X]
    step 1 [X] Hidden Content
     
  6. Southerndoc said:
    I think you bring up an excellent point and this is an issue that I wished more current Xavier clinical students discussed with us. If GMC is only offering "outpatient settings" for rotations then the school needs to find other affiliations for us that enable us to do rotations in actual hospitals. The school is getting older, more popular, more recognized, and has new owners now. These are the changes that need to be focused on.

    I agree that the paperwork may allow us to qualify for having done "acgme approved" rotations, but it does seem like a risk to take, and more importantly, it jeopardizes patients lives if they are with residents who weren't trained properly during rotations like you said. I think this is a serious issue and should be discussed with the school board. If all of the students sit quietly and do not question or communicate with the head honchos of the school then these problems will remain unresolved.
     
  7. fossildoc said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Southerndoc View Post
    the school needs to find other affiliations for us that enable us to do rotations in actual hospitals. ... If all of the students sit quietly and do not question or communicate with the head honchos of the school then these problems will remain unresolved.
    The school just signed a two-year contract with GMC, so they're going to be around for a while. See my post on GMC in the main forum for some twists.

    Have you ever wondered why students seem to disappear when they go to fifth and beyond? I know the reason, because I'm in touch with them. They don't want to spoil the "system". It's like a political machine in a big city; nobody wants to make waves for fear of disturbing the well-oiled system of payoffs and favors. Complaining about what really happens in the rotations world could attract the attention of regulators, which would prompt investigations, and all Carib schools would be forced to get their act together, resulting in steeply increased tuition. So we leave well-enough alone.

    As for students confronting the administration, you apparently haven't read my post "zebras and lions".
    Brain surgeon to another: "Hey, this isn't rocket science".
    Rocket scientist to another: "Hey, this isn't brain surgery".

    Forum Moderator - Xavier Aruba
     
  8. IMG Reality said:
    Quote Originally Posted by fossildoc View Post
    The school just signed a two-year contract with GMC, so they're going to be around for a while.
    I guess its the natural progression of a newer school to start with outside companies to be in control of setting up clinical rotations. I know other similar schools like Xavier use outside companies too, because it is the most financially sound option. Bigger more established schools, such as SGU, have an enormous amount of financial backing so securing big hospital contracts, like HHC in NY, are commonplace.

    My only problem is how these companies advertise what types of rotations are being offered. In the long run I think it is better for a school to come clean about what they offer and don't try and hide anything from current and prospective students. I realize some newer schools don't want to publish the hospital affiliations they established in fear of larger schools "buying them out", but at least make this info available to current students so they can plan ahead what their options are.

    In the white coat ceremony the other day one of the new owners stated that they are seeking out affiliations other then what GMC offers for the future. Hopefully, they keep their word about this and can offer students every opportunity possible. If a student scores at or above the mean of US medical students on step 1 then they should at least get the chance to be licensed in the states that require all cores greenbook (not bluebook) by doing those types of rotations.
    Chris
    life experience - define your locus of control, don't let it define you.

    one happy island [X]
    step 1 [X] Hidden Content
     
  9. AUCMD2006's Avatar

    AUCMD2006 said:

    it doesn't qualify you for "acgme"

    Quote Originally Posted by Southerndoc View Post
    I think you bring up an excellent point and this is an issue that I wished more current Xavier clinical students discussed with us. If GMC is only offering "outpatient settings" for rotations then the school needs to find other affiliations for us that enable us to do rotations in actual hospitals. The school is getting older, more popular, more recognized, and has new owners now. These are the changes that need to be focused on.

    I agree that the paperwork may allow us to qualify for having done "acgme approved" rotations, but it does seem like a risk to take, and more importantly, it jeopardizes patients lives if they are with residents who weren't trained properly during rotations like you said. I think this is a serious issue and should be discussed with the school board. If all of the students sit quietly and do not question or communicate with the head honchos of the school then these problems will remain unresolved.
    every single one of you should be very careful with this "rotation" set up. they are not rotations they are observerships and do not count towards a medical degree in the eyes of medical boards and will not count towards a restricted residency or full license if they find out.

    what you are doing are observerships...rotations have to be done through the gme office of the hospital and you have to do the rotation through the hopsital, be graded by the hospital on hospital records. while it may "look good on paper" its a sham and will likely get you in trouble if the residency program you end up at finds out.

    here is a simple test to see if your rotation counts. goto the california medical board website and download a L6 form. this form is required for california licensure and in it it has a place the hospital fills out saying that you did a rotation, the rotatioin you did, and the residency affiliation and its acgme number. it has to be signed by the program director of the hospital certifying that you did a rotation in that acgme program.

    now i know xavier is not on a cali list and will never be able to work there but this is a real simple litmus test you as students can use to see if the admin/sga/gmc etc is being honest about rotations. i am not doing this out of spite beleive me..i would absolutely hate to see any more students be harmed by the shady practice of touting observerships as full acgm,e greenbook rotations. unfortunately you will only find out when your credentials are verified

    you also have to uinderstand the difference between residency andfull licensure. for resideny there isn;t much paperwork since your program director is vouching for your education and you are supervised...basically they don't look too deep. the full licensurse applications i have require "direct verification" of credentials...what this means is that they will want a letter from the residency program you are claiming training through when you were a med student, they also want your residency graduation certificate, case logs, procedure list and any certifications you got as a resident and all are verifiued direct from source not from your records at the hospital or school.

    look out for each other no one else will
    AUCMD2006
    Bored Certified
     
  10. BriannadS said:
    so, basically we are stuck with GMC and blue book rotations?
    AUCMD2006 - I dont know if you are affiliated with Xavier or how much you know, but if what you say is true, why has this not been brought to attention?!
     
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.